So, an ongoing theme that has been brought up all throughout my education in graphic design is been bad design. apparently, bad design is inevitable and inescapable. normally, I would expect this to come from people who are not practicing design who attempt to do their own designs, however, sadly the spectrum runs more vast than that. professional designers and firms are guilty of this too, and it is kind of sad.
Example: ASU (Arizona State University) has recently changed their image for their athletic department, the Sun Devils. They (ASU) have teamed up with Nike and have created a new campaign featuring new logos, along with other various elements. However, the new logo portion is the important aspect here. It has been recently brought to light by an ASU Alum and current Chicago police officer (who is on the Chicago Gang Task Force) that ASU's new "pitchfork" logo is dangerously similar to the pitchfork symbol used by chicago gang, Satan's Disciples. This is really bad, because the SD's (Satan's Disciples) have now adopted the ASU style pitchfork as their own, and have started wearing ASU hats and tshirts. The police are now concerned, because ASU comes to town often to participate in sports events against UofI, and others. They are scared that an ASU student or family will attend wearing these hats and shirts, and then get beat up or much worse by the Latin Kings, who are rivals of Satan's Disciples.
When brought to the ASU board, this issue was "laughed at" in a way, because ASU and Nike both agree that they do not see any similarities. they don't feel it is a problem. When told it was bad design and not "thought through" on their part, they disagreed.
What do you think about this?
I am sure there is a way around this design or a way to modify the pitchfork. I found some comments that I thought were interesting dealing with gang affiliation and issues that relate to this subject.
ReplyDelete"For years gangs have been using the LA Dodgers colors, the Oakland Raiders colors, and many other professional sports teams logo's and colors. Has anyone suggested that a professional team change their colors because of a gang assuming their colors and logo? "
"Has anyone suggested that Michael Jordan stop selling the Air Jordan brand because gangs are killing each other over the shoes?"
Interesting that you bring that up, because that was talked about in the original article i read.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't particularly like the new logo because I kept trying to read that picture as WASU, I did a quick search on Satan's Deciples logo (if you do this, be ready!) and they really only share the similarity of being a pitchfork. The Sun Devils (ASU) have always had a logo with a little guy running with a pitchfork, but now that it is separated it is causing all of this controversy.
ReplyDeleteI like what Keith quoted - should every major team or organization stop branding themselves because they could possibly be used by gang members? No, that's not even something that would be taken seriously if brought up to major organizations.
It does go to show, however, that anything we do as designers has the potential to be taken out of context or used in a manner inconsistent with what we intended, so it is something to keep in mind while designing.
I don't think this makes the ASU design bad. I also don't understand why you made the statement in your opening paragraph about design firms and professional designers creating bad designs, and then took it to another place of gangs adopting sport logos. They are not one in the same. I would think you should support your first paragraph with more arguments or stick to just commenting on how gangs incorporate a team's colors or logo.
ReplyDeleteAs stated above. I do not think a team should start worrying overmuch about how their logo will be adopted by a gang.
Also, keep in mind, if there is one thing the press loves to do it is to stir up a fervor.
It doesn't matter whether or not ASU thinks it looks like the SD pitchfork - if they're already wearing the logo themselves, it's a legitimate concern. However, if tourists are staying in the loop and near stadiums, I would think it's unlikely they'd be mistaken for SDs in that context, anymore than they'd need to worry about wearing gang colors. It's only relevant in neighborhoods that are claimed (or disputed) territory.
ReplyDeleteWow! That is pretty dangerous. This is definitely something that they should have researched!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Shanna.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the logo it doesn't seem like it would be something that I would associate with gang violence because there are other devil swords looks that people don't associate with gangs like the Maserati symbol, but I feel like this wouldn't be so much talk about this if it wasn't an issue. The company should at least consider it because if something happens, all the anger will be towards them.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with shanna
ReplyDeleteperhaps some will associate this logo with the Satan's Disciples, but then again one could say the same thing about a simple crown logo drawing resemblance to the latin kings gang sign.
I'm honestly kind of conflicted about this. First off, though, I don't think that the logo itself is necessarily "bad design", though like Katie said, the position and shape of the pitchfork kind of makes it seem like it's supposed to be read as "WASU".
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lauren's comments about how context matters, and I also agree with Shanna's comments about the differing interpretation of symbols across cultures/subcultures/whatever. At the same time, I wonder just how much of this could have been predicted? Is this really only a problem in the Chicago area, or are Satan's Disciples a nationwide gang organization such that you'd find them in most cities that ASU would travel to? If it's only Chicago (or a handful of cities) that's the problem, then I don't think it's necessary to change the design -- only to be aware of its implications and to warn fans accordingly.
I agree with Keiths statement there are a lot of symbols and colors that can mean a lot of things. Some are bad and some are good, like the sports team colors, you can't change an entire franchises colors just because it is related to a gang that wears the same colors. Although this pitchfork is traced with gangs, it is pretty much the same thing as the colors.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lauren that the gangs most likely aren't going to confuse some tourist ASU family with a rival gang member. I see the general concern but i think it is taking it a step too far. ASU should however take into consideration everything while creating a design, they should should want to redesign it anyways to be unique and not associated with a Chicago gang.
ReplyDeleteI think it is important to be mindful of your audience. Once design goes out to the public you really need to know what your design meant in the first place and be ready to defend it if anyone should take it the wrong way. You of course could choose to care less but I think it's always best to be mindful of how you think people could take your design but not let it direct your design.
ReplyDeleteI think that ASU and Nike should be concerned with how their logo and colors are being used in the Satan's Disciples. I agree that ASU should have researched their designs more prior to making their decision. Now that the new design is out there it would be difficult to change ASU's logo again.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how much you guys know about gangs in general, but from someone who grew up in a gang neighborhood let me explain some of the concerns.
ReplyDeleteI can see why the logo could be a problem. Let's take the small gang of Satan Disciples out of the equation for a minute. In the general world of gangs there are two major groups. One is called Peoples and the other Folks. They are obviously rivals, and they have their subgroups of gangs from within. For example, People has Latin Kings and Folks has The Imperial Gangsters. When a Folk sees anyone wearing rival colors/someone suspicious, they throw up the hand sign for the pitchforks. It is the same hand sign that you see the SD's throwing up in the images and anyone who is a folk. If you pay attention to the gang graffiti , the fork is either drawn upside down or upside.
So in general, I feel that this issues goes further than just the SD's. However, I don't feel that it was ASU's fault, but the People vs. Folk gang is a NATIONWIDE problem so I would have to side to the people who want the logo removed because it is much bigger than just a gang in Chicago.
Aside from the implication the gang affiliation might have, I think the design in and of itself is a success. It is very powerful and full of energy!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with symbols is that they can stand for many different things. This post really hit home for me,because I grew up on the southside of Chicago where I would see/know these gang individuals on a daily basis. These gangs are ignorant to the fullest,and take association and territory to an extreme when they see someone wearing something out of the "ordinary". So,in terms of ASU's new design,I don't see any accordance with the gang's pitchfork sign. Color is also a huge issue for concern with gangs, so in that sense I would think that the red and gold is somewhat safe. However, I believe if an ASU student were to wear their schools logo on a t-shirt or hat, they probably will get some grief for it if caught in the wrong neighborhood. The corruption and destuctive tactics of gangs are so crooked that they probably would not need a reason to hurt someone over something so miniscule and irrelevant. So hopefully the students will be fine to wear whatever they want,but I wouldn't put the possibility of crime/violence over a symbol pass them.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of when I used to work in a kids salon and they had necklaces that had crowns on them for the little girls. I personally never connected them to gangs but the older women who worked there from different parts of the city associated them with it, I found it interesting how different we thought.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I can see the issue here, I feel like there are something that people just take way to far. What I mean is there there are always people with an issue about something.
ReplyDelete